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Why supplicating doesn't work

Of course, this is all a scientific view, and it is impossible to take into account all variables.

Now, I do not date and do not pay (unless I'm already in a relationship), but is this something to be considered here?

wayne rasmussen: No, this is the sucker loser mentality. Women who are users pray on men who believe this. True, there is some percentage of women who will think they have to put out, but, much more often than not you will find users. Beside, it is saying they are basically prostitiutes. Since many women want avoid the appearance of being sluts, being a prostitute would be worse.

When an AFC buys an HB a drink, she's obligated to talk to him a little (before blowing him off for a real PUA).

wayne rasmussen: So if you believe this, why would you buy into your paying for date idea above.

Rio: Well, unless she is the type of girl that just wants to snare a guy who buys shit all the time..... that would be proven incorrect.

Christopher L. Sands: Exactly. She knows that if she takes the drink and completely blows him off, immediately, the amount of free drinks coming to her would be severly diminished. Another conditioned response. Talk to him for 5 minutes, and he and his friends will return later to buy me more.

Rio: She senses that the guy is interested in sex - and therefore is controllable. The beer is a classic SOI that isn't followed by a challenge or anything. In such cases, a blunt SOI from the start is considered hitting. The guy with NO DESIRE for her cannot be controlled.

Style: This is true. But it's easier said than done sometimes. I'm finding, now that I'm back out sarging, that with the total HB10s, sometimes I'm so amazed that I'm talking to them and it's working that I start to get nervous and blow it. Just being nervous or not comfortable around a HB10, no matter what you're saying, shows them they have power over you. I sometimes try to look for small ugly features and obsess on then in order to keep the upper hand mentally, but sometimes, when a girl's just my type, I get nervous and blow it. Any suggestions, Rio, for keeping your cool when SSing a super-hot HB, for not letting the fact that inside you're dying of lust (and surprise that she's beginning to get hot for you) show on the outside?

wayne rasmussen: I think it is BS that a guy is controlled if he shows desire. His is controlled if he allows himself to be controlled.

That's why it's essential to not tell a 10 that you love her. That's why the sex has to seem "accidental" or "just happen". That's why 10s have to be kicked out of your house in the morning.

wayne rasmussen: It doesn't always have to be accidental. I have never said "I love you" in my life. You seem way too obessed with this attitude.

That's why some guys don't approach women either... because they know that in doing so, they think her barriers will go up and reject him for wanting sex like every other guy. BUT, if he appraoches, shows no interest, negs, and THEN talks... he stands a much better chance of taming the bitch.

So does it stand to reason that excessive dating/supplication is how AFCs get laid (by making the girl feel obligated and guilty if they don't)?

wayne rasmussen: Dating is bad as society paints a certain expectation about it. You take her out, you spend $$, and maybe after X date(s) you might get laid. Now replace that to meeting some chick, spending zero $ on her and hanging out with her, then getting the fucked. Which is better?

Christopher L. Sands: Yes. Like the above example, they have learned that around the 2-3 date (or more, depending on the situation) they must put out or they will lose the guy, and thus, the money. This IS how AFC's get laid.

Rio: Good example. Some AFCs are lucky enough to find horny women too and ask for a fuck. That can happen too.

wayne rasmussen: And just because you "seduce" or "it just happened"doesn't mean she didn't want to fuck you to start with. Look some women want to be fucked. it isn't only power games and shit tests. If that is all you have experience, I feel pitty for you.

The trouble is, the majority of women (IMO) will date an AFC 2-3 times just for the sheer monetary value, and then tell him "It's not going to work" to avoid sex, and then move on to the next chump. THIS is why AFC's rarely get laid.

Rio: That last scenario is very VALID. I have met women who work this principle. They flirt with a guy as long as they can, keep him around paying for stuff as long as she can - and when he wants sex, they bail out and move on. Some female PUAs aren't in it for sex - some are players for money. BUT, these women will still be captivated by guys they can't have.... like most men who want what they can't have.

wayne rasmussen: Don't just blame women. People use people. anyone who has tried to run a business with see that there are people willing to stick it too you at every turn. It is the chump who allows himself to be used that is the problem.

DSWGOS: What you are talking about when girls feel they have to put out because the guy has paid for everything is the Rule of can read about it in Cialdini's book..."Influence"...!

Mike H.: I've been playing a little with the theory part of PU skills: The cognitive dissonance methods, i.e. getting the chick to do something for you, are favored here because they avoid the "prostitution" worry that HB's have in transactions around sexuality and allow her to feel her feelings of desire for sex more comfortably. If like a typical AFC, you do something for them and soon thereafter you start having sex, they will be having sex with you out of an obligation, the most blatant of which is the exchange of money or goods for sex. That is why the path to sex is so long and unpredictable on the modern "dating" scene. You need to veil the sex part in a series of dates and talks so that the exchange part is no longer part of the conscious awareness of either party. Also now that chicks can get good jobs and the difference between men's and women's earnings are less than they have ever been in history, the emotional and sexual value of the traditional exchange is less to the women.

While before, dates would have been exciting sensual experiences for chicks (nicer restaurants, more non-sexual excitement), now what you do on a date, many women do with their friends or on business anyway. So the excitement of it is much less than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago. It still means something but less. With getting HB's to do an innocuous favor for you, Cog dissonance theory says that she is more likely to think that it is HER idea that you are at least likeable, maybe even desireable. PU is then a process of setting up a series of other favors or requests that build on the initial request. Doing and using EV allows you to integrate the "script" you are creating into her value system. So your requests are then seen again as PART OF HER and not OTHER or different from what she would ordinarily do. You become kind of a helpful guide who eases her worries so she can enjoy sex with you. Kind of like a little angel that speaks to characters in cartoons but this little angel is sex positive and is advising her to have sex with YOU.

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